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There are 12 posts — by 7 authors — in this topic.
Latest post made by Simon Smith at 2008 Sep 12 17:34 UTC

From: Shane McCracken Date: 2008 Sep 09 08:56 UTC Short link

One for Tom Steinberg that I expect more people will have an interest in:

I just noticed the article from the Sunday Times about crowd-sourcing
democracy
(http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article4692454.ece).
I was wondered if you saw any spike in traffic after the sites were
mentioned in the article.

What sort of uplift, if any, do you get from such superb PR?

Hope you don't mind sharing such info,

From: Tom Steinberg Date: 2008 Sep 09 15:10 UTC Short link

Nope, newspaper articles are almost never significant in terms of
traffic, and this is no exception, despite being a very nice,
sympathetic and quite substantial article. I think it was worth maybe
75 visitors more than a typical sunday, of whom doubtless a few left
problems, which is a good thing for their streets anyway.

Rule of thumb re traffic  - if you can get on the front page of the
Times, or you can get a blog post on BoingBoing, go for BoingBoing
every time, it'll be orders of magnitude more impactful.

best,

Tom

2008/9/9 Shane McCracken <email obscured>>:
> One for Tom Steinberg that I expect more people will have an interest in:
>
> I just noticed the article from the Sunday Times about crowd-sourcing
> democracy
>
(http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article4692454.ece).

From: Gez Smith Date: 2008 Sep 09 15:29 UTC Short link

I'd second that, never found offline promotion, be it local news or
national press to have any significant impact on online traffic, the
work of the national e-democracy project proved this pretty
comprehensively as well i think.

Think the reason for it is pretty clear, remembering to look at a site
you read about when you were away from the net is a lot more difficult
and therefore less likely than clicking on a link there and then when
you're already online.

The only one i wonder about is TV promotion, as with the increasing
prevalence of wifi there are a fair few people who surf the web whilst
also watching telly, often discussing what's on in real time on the
web. It easier for them to look up things online that they see on the
TV. When i say a fair few though, it's almost certainly not anything
approaching any level of significance, and the trend of programs
advertising post show webchats and the like seems to have died a death
pretty comprehensively as well.

_________________________________

Gez Smith
e-Democracy Consultant
Delib, Ropemaker Court, 11 Lower Park Row, Bristol, BS1 5BN
T:+44 (0)845 638 1848
F:+44 (0) 117 316 9512
W: www.delib.co.uk

:: Catch all the latest participation advice and news: www.delib.co.uk/dblog




On 9 Sep 2008, at 16:10, Tom Steinberg wrote:

> Nope, newspaper articles are almost never significant in terms of
> traffic, and this is no exception, despite being a very nice,
> sympathetic and quite substantial article. I think it was worth maybe
> 75 visitors more than a typical sunday, of whom doubtless a few left
> problems, which is a good thing for their streets anyway.
>
> Rule of thumb re traffic  - if you can get on the front page of the
> Times, or you can get a blog post on BoingBoing, go for BoingBoing
> every time, it'll be orders of magnitude more impactful.
>
> best,
>
> Tom
>
> 2008/9/9 Shane McCracken <email obscured>>:
>> One for Tom Steinberg that I expect more people will have an
>> interest in:
>>
>> I just noticed the article from the Sunday Times about crowd-sourcing
>> democracy
>>
(http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article4692454.ece
>> ).
>> I was wondered if you saw any spike in traffic after the sites were
>> mentioned in the article.
>>
>> What sort of uplift, if any, do you get from such superb PR?
>>
>> Hope you don't mind sharing such info,
>>
>> Shane
>>
>> --
>>
>> Shane McCracken
>> Director
>> Gallomanor Communications Ltd.
>>
>> creating community conversations
>>
>> www.gallomanor.com <http://www.gallomanor.com/>
>> civicsurf.org <http://civicsurf.org/>
>> www.bigvote.org.uk <http://www.bigvote.org.uk/>
>> www.lifeswap.org.uk <http://www.lifeswap.org.uk/>
>>
>> <email obscured> <email obscured>>
>> mob:07720 297515
>> tel:01225 869450
>> fax:0870 7627 451
>>
>> 31 Silver Street
>> Bradford on Avon
>> BA15 1JX
>>
>> Gallomanor Communications Ltd.
>> Registered in England & Wales, No. 03980700.
>> Registered Address: Duckmead Cottage, Farleigh Wick, Bradford-on-
>> Avon,
>> BA15 2PU
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
>> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>>
>> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with
>> all posts on this topic here:
>> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/IJkjipwrw5teTTbSGsfFM
>>
>> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
>> email <email obscured>
>> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>>
>> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online
>> - http://dowire.org.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Director, mySociety
> 07811 082158
> www.mySociety.org
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>
> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with
> all posts on this topic here:
> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/5VutpiOI0v5dD6LH8yfexg
>
> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
> email <email obscured>
> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>
> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online
> - http://dowire.org.

From: Tom Steinberg Date: 2008 Sep 09 15:43 UTC Short link

Oops, my bad on one thing. Matthew has just pointed out that actual
reported problems did go up significantly, by about 100% compared with
a normal week day.

Still, would have been more if it had been the register, BBC news, etc etc

best,

Tom

2008/9/9 Gez Smith <email obscured>>:

> I'd second that, never found offline promotion, be it local news or
> national press to have any significant impact on online traffic, the
> work of the national e-democracy project proved this pretty
> comprehensively as well i think.
>
> Think the reason for it is pretty clear, remembering to look at a site
> you read about when you were away from the net is a lot more difficult
> and therefore less likely than clicking on a link there and then when
> you're already online.
>
> The only one i wonder about is TV promotion, as with the increasing
> prevalence of wifi there are a fair few people who surf the web whilst
> also watching telly, often discussing what's on in real time on the
> web. It easier for them to look up things online that they see on the
> TV. When i say a fair few though, it's almost certainly not anything
> approaching any level of significance, and the trend of programs
> advertising post show webchats and the like seems to have died a death
> pretty comprehensively as well.
> _________________________________
>
> Gez Smith
> e-Democracy Consultant
> Delib, Ropemaker Court, 11 Lower Park Row, Bristol, BS1 5BN
> T:+44 (0)845 638 1848
> F:+44 (0) 117 316 9512
> W: www.delib.co.uk
>
> :: Catch all the latest participation advice and news: www.delib.co.uk/dblog
>
>
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2008, at 16:10, Tom Steinberg wrote:
>
>> Nope, newspaper articles are almost never significant in terms of
>> traffic, and this is no exception, despite being a very nice,
>> sympathetic and quite substantial article. I think it was worth maybe
>> 75 visitors more than a typical sunday, of whom doubtless a few left
>> problems, which is a good thing for their streets anyway.
>>
>> Rule of thumb re traffic  - if you can get on the front page of the
>> Times, or you can get a blog post on BoingBoing, go for BoingBoing
>> every time, it'll be orders of magnitude more impactful.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> 2008/9/9 Shane McCracken <email obscured>>:
>>> One for Tom Steinberg that I expect more people will have an
>>> interest in:
>>>
>>> I just noticed the article from the Sunday Times about crowd-sourcing
>>> democracy
>>>
(http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article4692454.ece
>>> ).
>>> I was wondered if you saw any spike in traffic after the sites were
>>> mentioned in the article.
>>>
>>> What sort of uplift, if any, do you get from such superb PR?
>>>
>>> Hope you don't mind sharing such info,
>>>
>>> Shane
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Shane McCracken
>>> Director
>>> Gallomanor Communications Ltd.
>>>
>>> creating community conversations
>>>
>>> www.gallomanor.com <http://www.gallomanor.com/>
>>> civicsurf.org <http://civicsurf.org/>
>>> www.bigvote.org.uk <http://www.bigvote.org.uk/>
>>> www.lifeswap.org.uk <http://www.lifeswap.org.uk/>
>>>
>>> <email obscured> <email obscured>>
>>> mob:07720 297515
>>> tel:01225 869450
>>> fax:0870 7627 451
>>>
>>> 31 Silver Street
>>> Bradford on Avon
>>> BA15 1JX
>>>
>>> Gallomanor Communications Ltd.
>>> Registered in England & Wales, No. 03980700.
>>> Registered Address: Duckmead Cottage, Farleigh Wick, Bradford-on-
>>> Avon,
>>> BA15 2PU
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
>>> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>>>
>>> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with
>>> all posts on this topic here:
>>> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/IJkjipwrw5teTTbSGsfFM
>>>
>>> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
>>> email <email obscured>
>>> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>>>
>>> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online
>>> - http://dowire.org.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Director, mySociety
>> 07811 082158
>> www.mySociety.org
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
>> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>>
>> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with
>> all posts on this topic here:
>> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/5VutpiOI0v5dD6LH8yfexg
>>
>> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
>> email <email obscured>
>> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>>
>> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online
>> - http://dowire.org.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>
> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with all posts
on this topic here:
> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/1JEWYOV3F40lh0WKssQXDe
>
> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
> email <email obscured>
> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>
> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online -
http://dowire.org.
>



--
Director, mySociety
07811 082158
www.mySociety.org

From: Ella Taylor-Smith Date: 2008 Sep 09 16:34 UTC Short link

Hi,
If an initiative is taken up by a newspaper that is read on and offline, it's
not quite clear where the increase in uptake comes from, but I've no doubt that
the e-petitions systems started to get super-busy when they were championed by
newspapers.

The e-petition to the Scottish Parliament campaigning for an upgrade to the A82
was championed by various Scottish newspapers (e.g.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2105499.0.Campaign_for_90m_A82_upgrade_starts.php
and
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2145777.0.Record_number_backs_online_campaign_for_A82_upgrade.php
)

This had a considerable knock-on effect, not just on this e-petition, but on
the number of e-petitions started and the overall level of traffic on the site.

I think the same happened (earlier) for the number 10 system and if I wanted to
publicise an e-democracy initiative, I'd aim for coverage in a newspaper.
(Though one with a popular online edition would obviously be best and a
national broadsheet might not be that helpful for a local initiative aimed at
young people.)

-Ella

Ella Taylor-Smith

International Teledemocracy Centre
Napier University
10 Colinton Road
Edinburgh, EH10 5DT

Telephone: +44 (0) 131 455 2392  Fax:  +44 (0) 131 455 2282
Email: <email obscured>

http://itc.napier.ac.uk




Napier University is the best modern university in Scotland* and number one in
Scotland for graduate employability**
(*Guardian University Guide 2009)
(**HESA 2008)

This message is intended for the addressee(s) only and should not be read,
copied or disclosed to anyone else outwith the University without the
permission of the sender.
It is your responsibility to ensure that this message and any attachments are
scanned for viruses or other defects. Napier University does not accept
liability for any loss or damage which may result from this email or any
attachment, or for errors or omissions arising after it was sent. Email is not
a secure medium. Email entering the University's system is subject to routine
monitoring and filtering by the University.
Napier University is a registered Scottish charity. Registration number
SC018373

From: Simon Smith Date: 2008 Sep 10 14:05 UTC Short link

Isn't there also likely to be a more long-term old/new media crossover effect?
Coverage in old media might be important in the longer term for reputation and
influence, even if there's little immediate effect from an article like the one
discussed.
Fix My Street would probably not be the right example for what I'm thinking of,
as people presumably use it for solving practical problems, but eParticipation
tools which are intended to give people a voice in policy-making, for instance,
might benefit from newspaper and TV coverage not through awareness-raising but
because influencing the news agenda of the day is (perceived as) an indirect
form of political influence. If I know or think that an eParticipation tool is
browsed by journalists to pick up stories, I'm more likely to use it.
I seem to remember reading one evaluation of the No.10 e-petitions site that
put it's success (measured by usage) down to precisely this kind of effect.

Simon Smith

From: Gez Smith Date: 2008 Sep 10 14:06 UTC Short link

Interesting, guess the online requirement still holds true there,
though it would be interesting to see a proper side by side evaluation
of online and offline coverage in terms of traffic, must be one out
there, anyone know of a link?

Certainly the times I've got sites mentioned in the 'old media' (more
for sites outside of work than in) it's had no noticeable impact, but
then this has tended to be press with poorly read websites (with the
exception of BBC News, which had a surprisingly pitiful click through
rate, but i know sometimes doesn't).

Suspect it's the usual combos of method, content and target audience,
there are methods that work a lot better than others, but all can be
rendered irrelevant if the engaging content isn't there to drive
action, or the people reading it fail to see the relevance to them.

_________________________________

Gez Smith
e-Democracy Consultant
Delib, Ropemaker Court, 11 Lower Park Row, Bristol, BS1 5BN
T:+44 (0)845 638 1848
F:+44 (0) 117 316 9512
W: www.delib.co.uk

:: Catch all the latest participation advice and news: www.delib.co.uk/dblog




On 9 Sep 2008, at 17:19, Taylor-Smith, Ella wrote:

> Hi,
> If an initiative is taken up by a newspaper that is read on and
> offline, it's not quite clear where the increase in uptake comes
> from, but I've no doubt that the e-petitions systems started to get
> super-busy when they were championed by newspapers.
>
> The e-petition to the Scottish Parliament campaigning for an upgrade
> to the A82 was championed by various Scottish newspapers (e.g.
>
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2105499.0.Campaign_for_90m_A82_upgrade_starts.php
> and
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2145777.0.Record_number_backs_online_campaign_for_A82_upgrade.php
>  )
>
> This had a considerable knock-on effect, not just on this e-
> petition, but on the number of e-petitions started and the overall
> level of traffic on the site.
>
> I think the same happened (earlier) for the number 10 system and if
> I wanted to publicise an e-democracy initiative, I'd aim for
> coverage in a newspaper. (Though one with a popular online edition
> would obviously be best and a national broadsheet might not be that
> helpful for a local initiative aimed at young people.)
>
> -Ella
>
> Ella Taylor-Smith
>
> International Teledemocracy Centre
> Napier University
> 10 Colinton Road
> Edinburgh, EH10 5DT
>
> Telephone: +44 (0) 131 455 2392  Fax:  +44 (0) 131 455 2282
> Email: <email obscured>
>
> http://itc.napier.ac.uk
>
>
>
>
> Napier University is the best modern university in Scotland* and
> number one in Scotland for graduate employability**
> (*Guardian University Guide 2009)
> (**HESA 2008)
>
> This message is intended for the addressee(s) only and should not be
> read, copied or disclosed to anyone else outwith the University
> without the permission of the sender.
> It is your responsibility to ensure that this message and any
> attachments are scanned for viruses or other defects. Napier
> University does not accept liability for any loss or damage which
> may result from this email or any attachment, or for errors or
> omissions arising after it was sent. Email is not a secure medium.
> Email entering the University's system is subject to routine
> monitoring and filtering by the University.
> Napier University is a registered Scottish charity. Registration
> number SC018373
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>
> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with
> all posts on this topic here:
> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/2PDKGNGa9hzauFTuOaA2po
>
> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
> email <email obscured>
> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>
> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online
> - http://dowire.org.

From: Shane McCracken Date: 2008 Sep 10 15:03 UTC Short link

When you're advertising offline you have two factors to consider:  reach
and frequency.  The Sunday Times has good reach (3,267,000 readers -
http://www.nmauk.co.uk/nma/do/live/factsAndFigures?newspaperID=19) but
one article has a frequency of one.  Theory tells you that you need to
hit your audience a number of times (depending on the product sold)
before you get the optimum impact.  Rarely is one hit enough.

That's why Ella's comment about newspaper campaigns is relevant.  Good
reach and frequency, because it is repeated.

Shane

Simon Smith wrote:
> Isn't there also likely to be a more long-term old/new media crossover
effect?
> Coverage in old media might be important in the longer term for reputation
and influence, even if there's little immediate effect from an article like the
one discussed.
> Fix My Street would probably not be the right example for what I'm thinking
of, as people presumably use it for solving practical problems, but
eParticipation tools which are intended to give people a voice in
policy-making, for instance, might benefit from newspaper and TV coverage not
through awareness-raising but because influencing the news agenda of the day is
(perceived as) an indirect form of political influence. If I know or think that
an eParticipation tool is browsed by journalists to pick up stories, I'm more
likely to use it.
> I seem to remember reading one evaluation of the No.10 e-petitions site that
put it's success (measured by usage) down to precisely this kind of effect.
>
> Simon Smith
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>
> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with all posts
on this topic here:
> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/5zPImZ7B1VPO9QPRpoZtLF
>
> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
> email <email obscured>
> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>
> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online -
http://dowire.org.

From: paul canning Date: 2008 Sep 10 19:19 UTC Short link

Offline media still has massive audiences and can generate significant buzz
- but it needs to be sustained. I was puzzling how a Topgear presenter got
2m+ views on YouTube (I don't watch) but eventually figured it was due to
the BBC show and publicity machine - which is huge - getting behind it. It
had almost no actual online buzz - blog posts etc.aka syndication - but
still a huge audience.

There's no doubt that offline media can have massive impacts because it
retains massive audience.

I just think you've got to look as others have said about who you're
targeting. An audience is online, another not so much or not much at all.
You segment your media/marketing strategy and target accordingly.

A Sunday Times piece may attract some brief hits but a link has X-times more
value - because the viewer is already online. But a Sunday Times piece may
be infront of an audience segment which is otherwise hard to reach.

Of course, my issue is that we (.gov) tend to ignore the already online
audience and focus on the offline! I would actually argue that a greater
focus on the already online would drag the offline in.

paul canning

2008/9/10 Shane McCracken <email obscured>>

> When you're advertising offline you have two factors to consider:  reach
> and frequency.  The Sunday Times has good reach (3,267,000 readers -
> http://www.nmauk.co.uk/nma/do/live/factsAndFigures?newspaperID=19) but
> one article has a frequency of one.  Theory tells you that you need to
> hit your audience a number of times (depending on the product sold)
> before you get the optimum impact.  Rarely is one hit enough.
>
> That's why Ella's comment about newspaper campaigns is relevant.  Good
> reach and frequency, because it is repeated.
>
> Shane
>
> Simon Smith wrote:
> > Isn't there also likely to be a more long-term old/new media crossover
> effect?
> > Coverage in old media might be important in the longer term for
> reputation and influence, even if there's little immediate effect from an
> article like the one discussed.
> > Fix My Street would probably not be the right example for what I'm
> thinking of, as people presumably use it for solving practical problems, but
> eParticipation tools which are intended to give people a voice in
> policy-making, for instance, might benefit from newspaper and TV coverage
> not through awareness-raising but because influencing the news agenda of the
> day is (perceived as) an indirect form of political influence. If I know or
> think that an eParticipation tool is browsed by journalists to pick up
> stories, I'm more likely to use it.
> > I seem to remember reading one evaluation of the No.10 e-petitions site
> that put it's success (measured by usage) down to precisely this kind of
> effect.
> >
> > Simon Smith
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
> > http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
> >
> > Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with all
> posts on this topic here:
> > http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/5zPImZ7B1VPO9QPRpoZtLF
> >
> > For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
> > email <email obscured>
> > with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
> >
> > UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online -
> http://dowire.org.
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Shane McCracken
> Director
> Gallomanor Communications Ltd.
>
> creating community conversations
>
> www.gallomanor.com <http://www.gallomanor.com/>
> civicsurf.org <http://civicsurf.org/>
> www.bigvote.org.uk <http://www.bigvote.org.uk/>
> www.lifeswap.org.uk <http://www.lifeswap.org.uk/>
>
> <email obscured> <email obscured>> <mailto:email:
> <email obscured>>
> mob:07720 297515
> tel:01225 869450
> fax:0870 7627 451
>
> 31 Silver Street
> Bradford on Avon
> BA15 1JX
>
> Gallomanor Communications Ltd.
> Registered in England & Wales, No. 03980700.
> Registered Address: Duckmead Cottage, Farleigh Wick, Bradford-on-Avon,
> BA15 2PU
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Group home for UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange:
> http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie
>
> Replies go to members of UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange with all posts
> on this topic here:
> http://groups.dowire.org/r/topic/4pIDtDinMCgPuOqB4Mst7N
>
> For digest version or to leave UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange,
> email <email obscured>
> with "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in the *subject*.
>
> UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange is hosted by Democracies Online -
> http://dowire.org.
>



--
www.paulcanning.me.uk
web stuff and other ramblings
~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Jill Sanders Date: 2008 Sep 11 06:42 UTC Short link

We had our major "growth" when campaigning occurred and significant numbers
of people activated out there on the ground.  Oncom supplemented the
campaigning effort.

From: Gez Smith Date: 2008 Sep 11 14:10 UTC Short link

> Of course, my issue is that we (.gov) tend to ignore the already
> online
> audience and focus on the offline! I would actually argue that a
> greater
> focus on the already online would drag the offline in.
>
> paul canning

All too true, the reason being, of course, that 'no-one round here
uses the internet', a nonsense that's probably one of the biggest
single barriers to e-participation currently in existence.

Think you're right though, as whilst lots of people in lots of areas
actually do use the web, we've got to remember that, with a few
exceptions, the people who use the web also often talk to people in
the real world too.

From: Simon Smith Date: 2008 Sep 12 17:34 UTC Short link

Gez wrote:
> we've got to remember that, with a few exceptions, the people who use the web
also often talk to people in the real world too.

I'm slightly alarmed by your use of the word 'often' in that sentence (or is it
the placing of it? Perhaps it should come at the end;-)

But you're spot on, which means that in relation to Paul's point, focusing more
on the already online can 'drag in' the offline not only as future users, but
as indirect participants - people whose views and interests do get a look in
because someone's there to represent them (informally). eDemocracy shouldn't be
confused with direct democracy.
If 42% of eGovernment users assisted family or friends (an average of 2.6 other
people) with access to eGovernment according to the cross-European eUser survey
(http://www.euser-eu.org/), why shouldn't we assume something similar about
eParticipation?

Channel mix is one of the themes we are beginning to look at in the European
eParticipation study (www.european-eparticipation.eu) so it's been very
interesting to read people's apparently differing experiences about the synergy
(or not) between old and new media / online and offline channels.
I'd be interested to hear more about the conditions under which 'old' media can
enhance eParticipation. Do combinations work better at any particular scale,
for example? Are the successful initiatives those which not only use old media
for publicity, but to create parallel offline participation channels (e.g.
local newspaper invites readers to write in / phone in, and forwards comments
to the project owner)?

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