On 07/02/2008, Christoforos Korakas <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
>
> I try to follow the discussion as much as i can ...
>
> We are actually trying through this mail list, through debate and
> deliberation, to arrive at a consensus ourselves on what consensus is ...
> (???)
>
> I would be keen to see if anyone has spotted any better tool than mail
> list
> to actually exchange debate and deliberate on any issue ...
> I cant believe that this is something we can propose as a solution to any
> real life implementation (such as 500 people deliberating on substantial
> issues they need to decide on)
>
> And i mean discuss ... not reply to questionnaires nor Vote on options ...
> discuss...
>
> Forums will not do either ... when you eventually reach a critical mass of
> arguments (lets say 500) it is impossible to do anything with it ...
> (Imagine what it would look like ... *"replying to the thread number 235
> on
> the 7th page of contributions to this discussion i would like to say that
> ...* "
>
> Has any one got anything better to propose ?
>
> And thats just a mild case ...
>
> We all want participation right? what if people actually show up ? what
> then
> ??
>
> try deal with 10.000 citizens wanting to discuss issues with the mayor!!
>
> try a 100.000 wanting to discuss with the President ...
>
> I try to find a way to solve this one but no success till now ...
>
> Best Regards
>
> Christoforos Korakas
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2008 4:23 PM, Peter M. Shane <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > I've been loosing following this thread, but find myself wondering -- is
> > everyone using "consensus" to mean the same thing? Some posts seem to
> aim
> > towards something like unanimous agreement. Others seem to mean
> something
> > like "general agreement," even if there remains substantial
> dissent. Yet
> > others seem to mean just a majority conclusion, so long as the
> dissenters
> > buy into the legitimacy of the process. What, exactly, are you all
> > talking
> > about?
> >
> > Best, Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pete Thomson [mailto:<email obscured>]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:12 AM
> > To: <email obscured>
> > Subject: Re: [Consult] Building consensus online
> >
> > Michael, I think it was the word "force" that sparked my comment - I'm
> not
> > sure if it's really an objection. Miles has now clarified that he didn't
> > mean quite what I took it to mean.
> >
> > Where I'm coming from, basically, is the relatively low level of
> > participation in almost all online spaces (low compared to, say, voting
> in
> > elections). It is about point (a) in Michael's labelling of my points:
> > individuals and interest groups are not under any pressure to
> participate.
> > That means that (1) there's not seen to be an active marketplace that's
> > worth selling into, and (2) legitimacy is weak so action is unlikely
> > (unless
> > the forum is sponsored by an institution that's committed to acting on
> its
> > conclusions).
> >
> > This may be getting a bit off topic from Steven's original question,
> which
> > is more about point (b). But actually I wonder whether one reason for
> > difficulty in reaching consensus is that the participants don't really
> > believe it matters. We may heckle the guy spouting off from the soapbox,
> > but
> > the discussion with him won't change the way we vote.
> >
> >
> > Member profile for Pete Thomson:
> > http://groups.dowire.org/contacts/petethomson
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
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> >
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>
>
> --
> Christoforos Korakas
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ckorakas
>
> Member profile for Christoforos Korakas:
> http://groups.dowire.org/contacts/ckorakas
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
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